Episode Transcript
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
women, people, technology, soft skills, project, talk, mentor, important, male counterpart, questions, liz, conversation, role, jackie, hear, burnout, started, career, confidence, toby
SPEAKERS
Carolyn Norton, Carrie Gabris, Toby Darby, Liz Corey, Sabrina Zimara, Lorna Link, Jackie Simens
Sabrina Zimara 00:03
Hello, everyone. And thank you so much for joining us for today's conversation. My name is Sabrina's Amira, I am the director of demand generation on the marketing team here at velocio. And I have the privilege today of being joined by many inspiring and brilliant women who work here at velocio. Before I let them introduce themselves, I want to just let you know that we have a very large audience today. So we do have everyone muted. But we want this discussion to be very engaging, and very interactive. So use that questions pane and enter any questions that you do have for the group. Or if you have any thoughts or insights or personal stories that you want to share with the group. Put that in the Questions pane as well. And I will pass that over as part of the discussion. Today's session is being recorded, we will send out a copy of the recording following the presentation, along with access to our latest edition of Notes from the Field. That edition contains insights specifically from women and technology. I'm really excited about it, I think you're gonna find a lot of value from it as well. Before we dive into our discussion on leading the way in technology, let's learn about who we have on the panel today. So as we go around, I'll have everyone share your name and your title and how many years you've been in the technology industry. So let's let's start with Carrie. Carrie, you want to kick us off?
Carrie Gabris 01:30
Yeah, sure. Good morning. So my name is Carrie capers, and I'm the BC enterprise practice Director here at velocio. I have been in this industry, this is my 25th year. So we've held different many different types of positions but happy to be here.
Sabrina Zimara 01:44
Fantastic. Lorna, you want to go next.
Lorna Link 01:47
Sure. Thank you. My name is Lorna link, and I am the BC express an IMS practice director and I have been in the technology industry. Carrie, you and I grew up together obviously for the last 25 years as well.
Carrie Gabris 02:00
Nice, Liz. Yeah,
Liz Corey 02:02
thank you so much. So my name is Liz quarry, and I'm the Chief People Officer here at velocio. I started off as a computer science major and then moved over into HR, and I to have been within technology companies
Carrie Gabris 02:15
for over 25 years. Nice, Toby.
Toby Darby 02:20
Hi, I'm Toby Darby. I'm a consulting manager here on the GP team. And again, 25 years in the tech industry started off in accounting and kind of graduated to to helping people in, in the industry. So I'm excited to be on the call. And let's have a good time. Yeah,
Sabrina Zimara 02:41
Carolyn.
Carolyn Norton 02:43
I am everyone. Carolyn Norton. I'm the director of cloud Engineering and Operations here at velocio. And I've been in the industry 18 years doing technology.
Sabrina Zimara 02:53
Great. And rounding us out today, Jackie.
Jackie Simens 02:58
So thanks for putting me last very intimidated being. I'm Jackie Simmons, I'm a consulting manager at velocio. And I have been in this space for eight years.
Sabrina Zimara 03:11
Fantastic. Thank you. Thank you all for joining us. I just want to start out with a study that I read recently, and it showed that women currently hold only 26.7% of tech related jobs. And women are only achieving 18% of new computer science degrees. And the statistics really show me that it's not super popular for women to pursue careers in technology. So that's really where I wanted to start today's conversation. What inspired all of you to pursue a career in the technology industry? Feel free to hop in whoever wants to answer that one. First.
Lorna Link 03:52
You're gonna start Carolyn, I can't. I fell into it. I tripped into it. My company, I had an accounting job in my county, my company was moving to Louisiana. And our software vendor looked at me and said, Hey, we need somebody like you. So I tripped into it and started doing ERP implementation just because I was at the right place at the right time, and found out that I really liked it. It was fun.
Carrie Gabris 04:16
You know, I'm very similar to you, Lorna, I tripped into it as well. I was a controller at a company and our consulting firm that we were using thought you know, we think you'd be a good consultant. And to tell you the truth, it took me a long time to decide because from a compensation perspective, I had always had base salary positions, I'd never gone into anything that was more around commission or billable time and which a lot of our tech industry jobs are so it really took kind of the network of people I had that believed in me to help me kind of see potential in where I could go and give me that confidence.
Liz Corey 04:55
I think for me, I started actually programming the Pascal Fortran back in the day, so I'm definitely dating myself. And I wanted to to find something very intentional working with people and technology. And, you know, in the HR space, I've been very blessed to be able to do that.
Toby Darby 05:20
I may have some work for you on past.
Liz Corey 05:26
There were floppy disks back then, Toby.
Sabrina Zimara 05:29
Yeah. I'm very similar to a lot of you. I mean, I went to school for marketing and for communications, and I just applied randomly for Microsoft partner here where I live and got the job. And I had no idea really what I was getting into, and then just develop this deep love and passion for technology. And I've been in the in the space ever since. So as you know, and we talk about, like, how we got into this I know, you know, with any career, there are things that go really well, there are also challenges. So let's, let's talk about some of those challenges. What What kind of obstacles? What kind of things have you faced as a woman in technology? I know, Jackie, I think that you had some comments on we talked about this earlier, I don't know if you want to kick us off on this on this topic.
Jackie Simens 06:20
Sure. The one that comes to mind is being interrupted. I had someone at a previous organization call me up after I was presenting to our senior leadership team. And she asked me, Did you realize you were interrupted eight times in nine minutes. And I'm like, you know, I hadn't noticed that. Right? I'm really thankful for her because she went the extra mile to go tell the SLP members like you need to stop doing that. Because they were not interrupting my male counterparts in a very similar situation. So that's one of the challenges that come to mind for me. And at the time, I didn't even realize it. I didn't speak up. And just in that moment, I've learned now when I hear other people being interrupted, or what have you, I tried to step in, and, of course, correct a little bit, that's been a big one that I feel pretty often
Carrie Gabris 07:19
used to being in conference room situations, a lot of times I've been just overlooked if an opinion is getting asked for, I have very often been the only woman in the room. So it is quite obvious. And it can be, it can really put you off in the beginning, right? So you really have to find that confidence that you do know what you're talking about, you do have input, your input is valuable. And you know, you need to advocate for yourself. So, you know, I think women do a lot by showing, you know, we kind of take a lot on and try and get all things done. So it's, you know, how can you sit back and listen and absorb but then really bring a solution, or an idea that's very impactful that you need to be able to have the confidence to advocate for yourself to situations.
Liz Corey 08:08
I do think that Kari brings up a really great point about not being afraid to show your competence. I think, you know, for me early in my career, you know, being labeled as aggressive and overly aggressive and strong willed. You know, I think there's a bit of a pendulum that women have to have to swing from being viewed or seen as aggressive versus speaking up. And a lot of that comes through your competence, right through, really being able to show that you know your stuff.
Carolyn Norton 08:46
That's how I've I've been able to navigate all this. I didn't fall into technology, I actively pursued it since I was 11. It was game over for me I knew I wanted to technology from from the very beginning and what it's funny when when I think about the question, I don't know that I've and maybe I had an experience like Carrie where I didn't notice it. But as I began to fall in love with technology, I found that I was the only girl there or the female there. So I had a lot of male support. Oh, wow, she likes technology. Let's encourage that. Let's plan her in the right direction and help her move forward. Because this is not very common. It's not an even today, it's not very pursued by women. And in doing that, I've started to recognize that as you start to learn the technology and to Liz's point, as you start to become more knowledgeable as you start to get more comfortable in the space. It makes it a little bit easier. I wouldn't say perfect. It makes it easier for you to step into that role with that confidence and that knowledge that you have As you bring a value in what you're going to communicate to whatever you're doing so
Sabrina Zimara 10:05
yeah, I love that point. And I definitely want to, I want to dive a little deeper into this. So I know that, you know, in one of these studies, I read that women are 22% more likely than men to report experiencing impostor syndrome in tech and STEM professions. And it kind of goes to what we're talking about here. So I just want to know, you know, your thoughts on what steps can we take to build confidence to build that assertiveness to make sure we're coming across, you know, in the best possible way, so people do take us seriously.
Lorna Link 10:38
Carolyn, I'm gonna I'm gonna call you out just because I know that you are always prepared for a conversation. From when I'm when I'm involved with you, and I bring you into a conversation. You, you are you know what we're talking about, you know, in advance, you've asked questions. So I think a lot of that Sabrina is to the imposter syndrome is to practice it is to be prepared, it's to study, it's to reach out to Carrie and say, Will you listen to me? Will you read my email? Will you do this? And so it's use your resources, because if I go to tour Toby and ask her something, I really respect her opinion. And she's gonna give me the feedback I need to self correct before I get in front of a client to present. So I mean, Carolyn, it just to you, it's, you're prepared. I mean, I think it's
Carolyn Norton 11:23
I Yeah, you know, and I feel impostor syndrome all the time. I don't know why it's common for us women. But I recognize that a lot. So I guess I overcompensate by making sure that I come in with whatever it is that we're talking about. And if I don't have clarity, I want to make sure that I've taken everything I can proactively to set myself up for success. So again, when you walk in feeling like you know what you're going to talk about, or you feel confident, it just makes it so much easier to not have to fake it, you just, it just flows naturally, you know what I mean?
Carrie Gabris 11:59
I think too, you have to be very willing to ask for feedback, right? I think sometimes women can have the perception of I have to go in and, you know, look like I do know what I'm talking about prepared and all of that. But, you know, if you see someone, a male counterpart, or co worker that is successful, or that people are listening to, you know, go and chat with them and ask, you know, do you have ideas for me on how I can become, you know, more involved or engaged, you know, at a deeper level within this organization, or this project, this meeting coming up, whatever it is, but we have to be willing to ask for feedback, right? Because how we think we're coming across might not always be the way the perception that's happening. So it's managing the perception.
Jackie Simens 12:45
Yeah, to add on that it's very emotional, right? It's not factual. And so how I get through impostor syndrome is leaning on my support system at work, and to Carrie's point, getting that feedback, and kind of grounding me more in reality, because the imposter is here, right? It's not actually doing the correct job. So whenever I get victim in my own head, that sort of thing, I reached out to other people and kind of ground me and get their perspective, their feedback and move from there.
Liz Corey 13:18
I think also, it's about knowing your value, right? And really reminding yourself of your results, right, and being able to say, look, what I accomplished, and look at how that impacted the business, how that impacted the client, how that impacted my team. And sometimes we need to take a step back, remind ourselves of those accomplishments in order to know your value. And that value brings confidence. I know we see it a lot in job search. I know it's going to be a question that we ask a little bit later. But I think women tend to say, Oh, well, I'm okay with with the manager role, when in reality, they shouldn't be a director, they're ready to be a director. But that imposter syndrome tends to get in the way to say, I'm not worth that yet. I'm not there yet. Because I have to do all those things. So reminding yourself of your value and your results is my opinion key and critical.
Carolyn Norton 14:21
Oh my god lift Yes. Chichi every month of everything I did, because it's so easy to forget. And sometimes you just, you just assume that. Okay, whatever I did that thing. It's not really that big of a deal, but really, it was impactful
Liz Corey 14:37
was yes, yes. We all need a pat on the back
Carrie Gabris 14:40
folder. Because we are constantly, you know, typically chasing challenges. And so exactly taking a step back because you know, you need to consciously do that.
Sabrina Zimara 14:56
Something that you said Liz reminded me of something Did Jackie shared with me this week she shared with me a study from LinkedIn that showed women on average are applying for fewer positions on the LinkedIn platform. This is just based on their their stats, but women are applying for fewer positions. And in particular, they're applying for less senior positions compared to two males. I mean, why? Why do you all and maybe Liz, you can answer this first with your thoughts, and then we'll open it up to the group. But why do you think fewer women are applying for these senior roles? And how do you think that we can encourage women to really throw their hat in the ring and say, you know, I do have the qualifications for this job?
Liz Corey 15:41
Yeah, I do think it points a lot back to that impostor syndrome, right. And it points back to a lot of what a lot of people said, Right? Not getting the right feedback, right, not having the right mentor to help to help guide you along, not asking those questions about, well, how do you perceive me? Where do you see me going? And so we make up our own stories in our head. And those stories aren't always the the ones that suggest, Hey, we should apply for that VP position, or we should go for the director position, right? I also think women tend to read those job descriptions and say, Oh, I That's not me, I don't have this one bullet point. And therefore I'm not qualified, instead of saying, Well, look, I have all these other 10 bullet points, let me throw my name in the hat.
Carrie Gabris 16:35
I would like to hope that that starts to increase in terms of number of what makes I think it goes hand in hand. And we may want to save it for later, but the whole work life balance. And now that so many more people are in a remote situation. I would like to think that more women feel that those roles are attainable, as long as they can maintain that work life balance a little bit better. I think, sometimes not going after those, you know, Director type roles or VP roles is because we're afraid it's, you know, we might fall short because of the balance we need to
Liz Corey 17:08
have, right? Right, or what if my child gets sick, and I have to go take care of something, that should never be a reason to not go for it.
Carolyn Norton 17:21
The interesting thing for me is I kind of I kind of knew I wanted to ascend into a leadership position. But again, imposter syndrome came in and did its thing. And I went to a Microsoft conference. And they had this little section, technology, diversified technology. And there was a specific panel about women in tech. And I had the opportunity to see other women be able to do it, which gave me that much more confidence. And in thinking to myself, well, I just talked to these various women and they're doing it, I want to do it, just do it, go after it and do it. I even like there's a there was a wall that in that same area that asked you to pick what word best describes you. And before I went to talk to the women, I picked leader, this was I used to have that conversation. I was nervous. I didn't want to just walk up to a random woman and say, Hey, what do you How did you listen to
Carrie Gabris 18:23
look like look at her picture?
Carolyn Norton 18:24
How did you do it? Because I want to get here. And just seeing that. And I wonder if that also helps women. If you see other women out there doing it, perhaps it'll encourage them to get past whatever roadblock that's holding them back so that they can try. Right? You got to try right.
Lorna Link 18:42
All I had that I had a mentor, because I never wanted to manage people ever you have to ever and and she pursued me for over a year telling trying to sell me on a role where I would be leading a group of people a year, a year she came at me and talked me into it. And it was it was the scariest thing in the world. But it's the it's the push and the mentor of somebody listening to somebody who says you can do this, you can do this, Lorna, you can do it. And as it turns out, I actually kind of like being a manager. It's fun. It's great to see people grow. So you're so
Carrie Gabris 19:17
good I think to finding right and
Jackie Simens 19:24
I'd like to
Carrie Gabris 19:28
go ahead, Toby. No, go ahead.
Toby Darby 19:31
I was just gonna say that. I like to know that I'm going to be successful when I start an endeavor, right? I'm always nervous. If I'm not, you know, 95 to 100% successful, I shy away from it or it takes me a really long time to really get in there and break it down. I want to be the best at what I do. And if I feel like you know, there's a little chance that I might fail. I try to stay away from it but Um, just go for it, you really have to just go for it. Don't let any of that hold you back, because you can do it.
Carrie Gabris 20:07
I think in reality, none of us would really, I mean, how long would we be happy in a job, we walk into a regretted all the needs of that job, right? We all need to be challenged in some way, we all need to continue to grow. So I look at it as well, those might be more of my growth areas, right. And the learning comes in a failure. Yeah, the men in the industry to that, you know, see women that do have those qualities and the drive, what's been common in all in our conversation so far is our drive and our want to succeed. Right. And that is just something that should be embraced and harness and, you know, that mentorship and that networking, you know, through through organizations.
Sabrina Zimara 20:53
I've heard that theme come up, you know, a lot as we're having this mentorship, that's networking. It's obviously, you know, helped a lot of you and how do you kind of find that mentor? How do you find that network of people? How do you know you can rely on to move you forward? And what kind of advice would you give people maybe new in the industry? who are looking for like, how do I build that network and advance my career? So
Lorna Link 21:23
it's a great question now is Sabrina, you and I worked together at a previous company, and had a relationship from probably 20 years ago, 15 years ago from other companies. And the fact that we knew each other, the fact that we always stayed if we stayed connected, we are aware of each other, so that when we were both ready to move on to someplace else, we could reach into each other. And he could say, you know, Sabrina, because you did come to me and you said tell me about tell me about velocio and I was able to share with you honestly, and and really try and tell you what what I thought of Blasio, why it could be a good really, you know, good place for you to be and how excited I was going to be there had you not kept in contact or had you not because it was it wasn't a tight, tight contact, but it was enough to know that I knew you were still there, you knew I was still here. And so that's I think what we have to do is just make sure that we're always connecting. And LinkedIn is a great place to do it. Because we can watch people's careers change. And you can always be calm, you can be congratulating people on their, on their achievements, or, or whatever else are posting. So it's keeping a touch, keeping a pulse of the people that have helped you that you know, that you can help them and in at some point,
Liz Corey 22:35
and I think it's just asking, right asking, be not being shy or free to ask for some mentorship or some guidance or some, some feedback, right? And, and it's also staying true to your goals, right. So you know, I know for me, when I graduated with with my master's in organizational behavior, I wanted to be a C level executive, I wanted to be a chro. And that was your Listen, it took 25 years to get there. But that's the that's the goal. And making sure people know your goals, making sure they know what you're striving to be giving you those asking for those opportunities to sit in the boardroom or sit in a meeting that maybe you wouldn't be invited to so that you can learn. And my experience is 99.9% of the time people will say yes, they will say yes, they're
Carrie Gabris 23:31
gonna say no, if you don't ask for sure, it's zero, right? Network forward, it's also fostering the network from your past, right, like you're saying, you know, previous relationships and experiences with people, people you've connected with, you know, LinkedIn is a great platform, go and put recommendations on other people's profiles, right. And that's gonna resonate with them for the future, reaching out and creating new network, you know, new people in your network with conferences and not being afraid to walk up and ask questions, or how did you do this or do that so you have to look at both both directions, I think
Lorna Link 24:14
carry the two good point is that we get focused on the Microsoft channel. And so you know, 90% of my, my connections are Microsoft blu ray related, but the most interesting part of the people that I'm connected to are the ones that are from industries that I did business with through clients and and their connections because they just have some really interesting things going on. And if you foster those relationships are just, you get so much and you can learn so much from what they're doing.
Liz Corey 24:42
And I also have to say that, you know, people you may have gone to school with, so I've recently reconnected with some some old friends from college and while we are sharing stories, from those days, we are sharing experiences and They've been they've been great people to wow, look at everything that individual has accomplished. Maybe they can help me.
Sabrina Zimara 25:14
Sometimes I think about it, you know, kind of a lot of people on this call, I mean, as we've heard, have had a lot of years of experience in this industry. We've been around for quite a while, how do you think that we can help those newer in the workforce, you know, have that confidence to even start speaking their minds in meetings when they feel intimidated? Or how do we help them, you know, navigate towards the future and build that confidence within because I know that that's something that I struggle with every day is trying to help people with that. So just wondering if you have any, you know, thoughts or ideas or things that have worked for you to help people to, to grow in who they are, professionally.
Carrie Gabris 25:54
My big thing is soft skills, it's working on soft skills, those are things that can't be taught, right, your personality is your own unique thing. And how do you become better at the soft skills, because technology, those are tools, right, and you can be taught the tool, you can learn the tool, but the soft skills is something that just has to be a part of you and to kind of grow that. You know, I know, we look a lot at junior associates or people with zero experience consulting that we bring into our program. And I'm really looking at those soft skills, you know, how do they communicate, you know, is, would I be okay, putting them in front of a client or with a project team? How would they be as a team member and as a person, that's really what I'm looking for. Because you can you can teach the tool. So to me, that's, that's always a priority. And helping them
Carolyn Norton 26:52
recognize that those are, those are critically important, because I don't know that they always realize how important it is, until of course, something happens. And then it's like, oh, okay, I guess it mattered. helping them realize how important it is, and then coaching them on, again, where we, we look to mentors to share their experience, we share our experience to them so that they are also getting that benefit of, you know, the battle scars that we've gone through so that they can hopefully not have to repeat those again. Correct.
Lorna Link 27:26
I'd say also, if somebody says, Hey, will you give me feedback? Or could you mentor me through this process? Say yes. And then, and then if you see something that happens in a meeting that isn't as polished, or as glamorous as it could have been, gently and with compassion, pull them aside and say, This is what I observed. And this is what I observed from the client. And this is maybe how we could change it next time. No embarrassment, very private, and they can grow from it.
Toby Darby 27:57
Yeah, definitely share your experiences. I was working with a lady in the past, who asked me, you know, how do I manage projects? How do I know what to do? How do I solve problems, and one of the tips I gave her was, okay, so you've been a consultant for a while, think about the worst project you've ever been on, and put those as your, you know, red flags that you're going to manage to the worst project you've ever been on. And I think that's going to make a huge difference. So just, you know, offer some tips and tricks and, and always, you know, always ask for help.
Carrie Gabris 28:38
Oh, sorry. Yeah.
Jackie Simens 28:39
If you can hear me, okay. So, you know, kind of being vulnerable here. I'll talk about my experience right now at Bellagio. And I think networking internally is something that sometimes is overlooked. You know, Liz, I called her up, I think after, you know, 30 days, and we didn't even talk about HR stuff. We talked about change management, and it's, you know, how do you build that network internally and really get your personal brand out there? You know, I think that's an important topic that should be looked at and if your goal is to progress in your career, that's the steps that I'm taking actively right now.
Liz Corey 29:22
You know, and if you if you don't do that to Jackie's point, you know, I left the conversation you know, obviously had seen her resume had heard that she was joining us and left the conversation just completely wowed you right and now you know what that does is it really makes people know you and and and invite you to those seats at the table invite you to maybe those special projects that you may not have known about this person
Carolyn Norton 29:59
Okay, Still in the name anymore. She's someone you know, you know,
Carrie Gabris 30:05
is absolutely. I was outdated because I have the same change management, passion and it was great to someone else existed. That habit now I, you know, have someone I can work with, for something that's important to me right to grow as well. So it's finding the camaraderie at the same time is finding the mentor and, you know, the progression. Yeah, we had a,
Sabrina Zimara 30:32
we had a comment from one of our attendees today, when our viewers, Tiffany said, her advice is to encourage them to trust their gut, and to speak up and send that email and make that call and just go for it. You know, that's right.
Carolyn Norton 30:47
You're your own cheerleader, you have to want it more than everyone else, no one else is going to want it more than you. So you need to champion yourself forward. And there will be people that cheer you on, but you got to be at the front of the pack
Liz Corey 31:01
doing it.
Sabrina Zimara 31:03
No doubt. I love that advice. You know, I think Kerry, you talked you talked about you can teach people technology, but there's the soft skills that people people kind of need to learn and, or possess. And I'm just wondering, you know, what, what are those skills and qualities that you think are essential for women in technology to succeed?
Carrie Gabris 31:25
I think communication, I think is a big one. You know, I know, for myself, personally, I, I want to give as much information as possible and be as thorough as possible. But at the same time, a lot of other people, they're into reading bullet points, or they're into reading the first sentence of something, they don't want to look at three paragraphs, right. So I have found I've really had to groom my communication, to use less words, and just be more pointed, because you have to think of your audience. And sometimes it's about a, let me throw these few tidbits out there. But let's have a conversation, you know, so that you can then go into more of the explanation or the story. So communication has been really, really big, especially when you are dealing with the client relationship. You know, you do have to sit back, sometimes I have a two minute delay on anything in my outbox, and it saves me a lot of time, right. Sometimes, I need to just sit back a minute, and rethink something and, and communicate it in a better way. So I think communication, I think, sitting back and not just hearing but listening, like truly listening, and trying to understand, you know, if you're not agreeing with something that someone is saying, or you have an idea that you think is better, or whatever it is try and think about what is the root cause of their behavior, you know, typically it comes down to fear in some form or fashion. So really just being able to listen and absorb what you're, what you're hearing, and then being very thoughtful about the response. You know, I think trying to keep things very, as black and white as possible, and emotion free, you know, tends to help just stick to the content that's pertinent. But I think communication and then listening and being thoughtful and responses, I would say the top ones for me personally,
Lorna Link 33:27
listening, listening, listening, and don't try to solve it in the first sentence. Yes. Just sit back and carry Listen, right?
Carrie Gabris 33:37
And, Lorna, you are really great at in having a conversation and not not forcing a resolution or a solution right away. It's a you know what, let me think about this. And I think that's really important. It's okay to say, you know, I want to sit back and think about this and come back to you with a thoughtful answer, you know, or something I've put energy into rather than just, you know, what's the shoot from the hip type of thing? I'm learning that from you, Lauren. Thank you.
Liz Corey 34:08
I think I we were chatting a little bit about this before the call started. And I don't know if it's a soft skill, but it's not a hardcore hardcore tech skill, either. It's, it's knowing how to manage a project, right? I don't care if you are implementing ERP, which is inherently project management, or if you're, if you're in HR or accounting or marketing, it's knowing how to lay out the steps of a project, develop a business case, articulate that. It has been very, very an invaluable skill to me in my career, to be able to properly package things in a comprehensive format that people understand and I'm not suggesting everybody go run out and get a PMP right. This is More about, you know, how do you build that business case? How do you communicate and manage the change? How do you structure structure anything? Because everything is is a project? How do you execute on that? And then how do you measure and manage the results? I think if young women today could learn those skills, it'll be invaluable to any career they decide to have.
Lorna Link 35:27
I would agree, listen, and one of the things that without with another co worker, we have in conversation about be able to look out 3060, maybe even 90 days on all of the projects, you have to be able to say, in order to get to where 60 days needs to be, what steps do I need to take to get here, and that could be a three year, a six year nine year plan, and just keep our eyes open to what we want. And when we want to get there as best we can. Yeah.
Sabrina Zimara 35:55
We had a comment from one of our viewers, Samira, she said that she worked at a startup until recently, and that startup encouraged her to think and work like a leader or a manager, but found that most of the management roles were given to other employees when it was time for the promotion, especially male colleagues. She's gained more from the opportunity. But how does fie project her leader leadership and management experience on a resume when she doesn't have that title?
Carrie Gabris 36:27
In her background?
Liz Corey 36:31
I mean, I could take that one. I certainly feel you I have had an experience in my career, where I was passed over twice for, for older men who ultimately got got the position. And I think it's about influential leadership, right, and structuring your resume about the results that you've achieved, how you've been an influential leader, regardless of having direct reports or not. And, and I think if you frame your, your successes around influential leadership, it goes a long way to getting you to the next step. And then I think it's also practicing your pitch, right? What's your elevator? What's your elevator spiel? You know, we're going to be actually doing a webinar here internally in velocio, about building your brand. It's, it's how do you message and how do you package yourself, because the resume is one thing, it's then taking that into an interview, taking that internally, and, and being able to articulate who you are and how you approach work? Well, that
Carrie Gabris 37:45
gets back to Carolyn talking about, you know, kind of keeping that, that file of the positive accomplishments you've made. In an interview, a lot of times they want to know, a statistic or a specific example. You know, and, and, yeah, not having the title on your resume. Part of it too, is, again, being proactive and advocating for yourself, if you know, something is open, or you know, it's, you know, an annual merit, increase time, right? Put yourself out there before that happens, you know, and start having the conversations with those people that can manage that change with you. And, you know, start advocating for yourself on the things you have done and what your goals are and where you want to go. And again, I think you should always keep in place to you know, be humble, because we all have challenge areas. So bring those up to right, like this might not be a strength of mine, but I see it. And that's where I want to get to work out so it's advocating for yourself for sure we know something's coming up.
Sabrina Zimara 38:53
And then another another comment from Sheila she said that Mary asked her for her elevator pitch the first time she met Sheila in person. So it was an eye opening event, I was able to answer it and she understood me better from that. So I think that's great advice to like, what is your elevator pitch? What how would you summarize who you are and what you can bring to the table in just a short amount of time? Does anybody on the panel here kind of have that in their like mind like, this is my elevator pitch? This is how I describe who I am and what I do.
Toby Darby 39:27
I never really thought about that. I just get stuff done. Right? So what do I walk into the elevator? I like to solve problems and throw me the next problem. I'm up for the challenge and this is what
Lorna Link 39:44
I so so I threw mine at my current boss when he was interviewing me. It's a it's a throw me the softball. What do you want accomplished? Give me the power to make to invoke it to do it. And let me go Just let me go and I will I'll, I'll execute. Tell me what what your goal is where you want to start and let me execute? Yeah, he refers back to it occasionally just opens up his notebook and says, You said this.
Toby Darby 40:16
I have a same notebook.
Sabrina Zimara 40:21
So, you know, I work on the marketing team, Liz is on the HR team. So our clients really are all of you and the people who work at velocio. That's, you know, kind of who we serve. But the rest of you work directly with our clients, and these companies and businesses. And, you know, I was just wondering, like, Have you ever experienced a situation working with these clients where maybe they had a hesitation working with you because you're a woman? Or there was a gender bias in one way or another? And how do you navigate that and make sure that, you know, you can project that confidence that they should have confidence in you, right?
Toby Darby 41:01
I had a very interesting experience with a company that they're in this construction business. And the comptroller told me, he's been doing accounting longer than I have been alive. So I couldn't tell him how to use the software because he knows more about accounting than I do. Well, you don't know the software. So how about we work together, and we'll solve the problems together, it was it was really hard. A hard sell, to really get him to open up and actually listen to how I could help him so that that was a struggle. In the end, we made it but it was very painful.
Carrie Gabris 41:46
I've done an approach sometimes where it's not from me as a person, but it's a well, I'll use philosophy as an example, you know, this is the value add that velocio brings, right? We're not just, we're not just going to show you how to do something, we are going to consult with you and bring you value and I am in this role at Velocity Oh, so that is what I embody. And you know, the value add that I want to bring, and it's how you differentiate yourself, right? And it does get back to the elevator story, how do you quickly show that you can have a value that's intangible sometimes.
Jackie Simens 42:25
I do think though, consulting is a very interesting space. You know, we choose to work at Bellagio, we didn't choose to go work at that client site. So as a people manager or a project lead, at times, it's our responsibility to make sure that the team is in a position where they're going to be successful. I know that in a past life, I was mentoring a trans woman and that was very sensitive to me, you know, I knew not every would be perfect fit for her. But you know, that's something that you need to be aware of, at least in because I think that's really, really important to kind of look out for each other, your team and make sure it's a good fit. Ultimately, that's probably not what everyone wants to hear, because I like Karis mentality, and I'm going to take that with me where, hey, this is my role, and this is the value that I bring. But if it's ever to mismatch, and not a good fit, we do have some resource allocation things that do.
Carolyn Norton 43:27
I know I was challenged in the past when I was consulting, and I would join in on projects I would set I would do my elevator pitch as that role for that project. And then the client would constantly direct messages to the male counterpart of the project on me who's supposed to be the one answering those questions. But what I found in that experience and which is why I get so prepared now going forward is go in all this information having male supporters there to reaffirm yeah she knows what she's talking about. Why are you asking me ask her she just bought support alongside was that turned everything around and after that, it just started to make more sense with projects going in prepared but also having teammates that are also there to support you as well.
Sabrina Zimara 44:28
Yes, let me I know that Sheila has a couple more comments she was saying you know reverse mentoring and mandatory you know, mentoring younger to the older generation and she just wanted to mention that her favorite words are being mentioned in this webinar of value and intangible so the commenting there so I know that we talked a little bit earlier about you know, work life balance I think maybe Carrie you brought it up maybe it was lizard Jackie sorry. I don't remember who was who was brought up bringing that up but I I read that 42% of women versus 35% of men, men reported burnout due to working during the pandemic. And it was just harder harder on the women statistics show. So how do you approach that work life balance as a woman in technology.
Carolyn Norton 45:20
I have two kids 10 and 11. And I have to go through lovely COVID homeschool, running the team and all the good stuff that happens in that I always call them my two jobs, my career job and my my home job. They're both jobs, we have to give them equal amount of effort. It was crazy. I, for me, I still struggle with burnout here and there. But what I try to do is I start to recognize, I'm trying to start to recognize when I'm approaching that burnout and taking a step back and going okay, what are you doing? And what can you do to help you get off the cliff and or I'll speak again, I'm a big fan of teamwork. I you know, mentorship or conversations and just talk through what am I going through right now, because I think as women and I don't want to speak for everyone, sometimes we like to keep it all in and try to work our way through and then we get to the burnout, and then we crash, and then it makes a bad experience overall. So for but I'm working on it.
Liz Corey 46:32
Yeah, no, I do think Carolyn, that you're you're spot on, and half the battle is recognizing it before the flame goes out. Right. And then once you recognizing it, being able to take the steps to, to actively do something about it, right, like, I need a break. I do also think that today, post COVID, more than ever, it's actually okay to have conversations with your colleagues, other women and men, and actually admit you're burnt out, right, I think in the in the past, I know, you know, I've got a daughter in college. And, you know, I started as a full time working mother, you know, almost 22 years ago, and is different than right, you couldn't admit you, it was really frowned upon to say I'm struggling, I need a break. I'm juggling up both ends here, I gotta pick up I gotta drop off, I got a sports event. But I think today the environment is different. And men too, and women, right. And, and I think finding that culture and working in that culture where it's where it's,
Carrie Gabris 47:43
it's always praise,
Liz Corey 47:45
to be a mom and to be a dad and to be able to, you know, balance that way is it is important. And I think the the last thing that I'll add, it's not one size fits all for for people, right, everybody you know, is gonna respond to their wellness a little bit differently. And, you know, again, those active listening skills we've talked about those questioning skills are, are really, really important. Because as leaders, we also have to recognize it in our people, right? And help other women through it, especially, you know, when it's, it's that level of balance, and I think the lead is a topic of very passionate about, um, the last thing that I'll sort of say is, everybody goes through seasons, right? You know, I, you know, you start your career, you don't have children, and then you have children and their babies, and that's a season and then they're in school, and that's a season and then they graduate high school, and they go to college, and all of a sudden, you're like, What the heck happened to my season? Right? So it's, it's, it's seasonal. And meeting people where they're at and understanding and recognizing is so important for each of us to each other. Right?
Carrie Gabris 49:03
I have two things one, and I have failed miserably at in the past is boundaries, right? And it's important that you have boundaries, around work, boundaries around your family and friends, but especially a boundary for yourself. We can't take care of, you know, everyone else in the job and the demands until we take care of ourselves. And I find that women generally were the first to put ourselves last. Right? And so that really is where a lot of the burnout. I think to just in a lot of this remote working, it's important to have a workspace that you can walk away from and close off. I know for me personally, just given my own living situation. I was kind of working in the main space I was living and it was never escaping me. I was never getting a break because if I just looked over in that corner, all of a sudden I'm reminded of what I should be, you know, sitting there needing to get done. So I think it's It's boundaries and being able to kind of lock your who way and take care of yourself. You know, as well.
Lorna Link 50:08
Carry I was my word was non negotiables. I worked, I worked. I traveled from the time my daughter was three until she was 15. And I was traveling probably 75%. My non negotiables were, I needed to be home for her first day of school. And I needed to be home for her birthday. Right? Not very big. But but when you're traveling that much. And I and I manage that.
Liz Corey 50:34
Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I had a rule rule two, Lorna two nights away, right. So I could three days away, but two nights. So I'm like, You're right, the boundaries and the non negotiables are so important.
Toby Darby 50:49
I changed era changed my career many years ago, because I was traveling every week, I was gone from home for about five years. And I said, I'm not I can't work like that. It's wearing me out. It's, you know, router router, ruining my home relationship, and I'm so tired, I can't get all my work done. So I'm not being effective. So I changed my job. And I said, I'm not doing that anymore. Yes, I'll travel but we're not traveling, you know, every week. That's that's not realistic. And it doesn't do anybody any good. So all you have to do is state that, hey, Yes, I'll do this, or I won't do that, you know, set your boundaries, and you'll be successful.
Sabrina Zimara 51:36
It's great. And I know we're getting to the top of the hour, I just want to ask you one, one final question everyone. What role do you see women playing in driving innovation and change in the technology industry? And where do you think we go from here to encourage women to continue to jump into technology with both feet and bring you know your voice to the table and be heard?
Toby Darby 52:05
I think you have to start them young. You have to go to those science fairs at the elementary school or junior high. Talk to the girls. You know, my my niece is seven and she's very interested in science, encourage that I buy her all these science toys and things for Christmas and birthday gifts. And I just think you really need to get them interested in it while they're young. Because once they get to a certain point, they don't think about technology. And I'm not sure why I don't know why that's just not, hey, I can be an astronaut, or hey, I can, you know, plot out a trip around the world and work as a doctor or, you know, work as a computer specialist. I just don't think people think about that. And how do we? How do we get them to really open up of the possibilities because you can do whatever you want, you can be successful. And it doesn't matter if you're a woman or a man, we can all be successful in
Carrie Gabris 53:19
technology, I think you have to look past kind of maybe some stigmas or assumptions that are made around particular job titles or rules or industries. And that gets back to, you know, what is my value? What are my soft skills that I'm strong at? And you pretty much could probably take that package and apply it to any job around any industry. Right? So it's how do you switch your thinking and your perception on what you are capable of doing? So really think about? What is it that interests you? What do you feel accomplished? That, you know, where do you want to be challenged and grow? And then just understand your own self and your own soft skills? And how can I turn that around to be, you know, successful in that position or that company or that industry?
Liz Corey 54:10
I mean, I echo everything that I'm carrying Toby just said it's it's starting young and technology's not going anywhere, right from the time they pick up a phone when they're 12 months old and start on the the apps. Technology is in every single field. Artificial Intelligence is in every single field. Aspects of STEM are in every single field. And so it's really, really important to develop those skills young. And then encourage, encourage it once we're in the workplace. encourage those those young women, share with them the possibilities, share with them your stories, give them a picture be that role model of who they can be. Is is just it's key and critical key and critical.
Lorna Link 55:01
Liz, can I add that we also need to when we see something good when we see something good, and in any coworker is to call it out. And to say, that was an awesome idea. This was why this is take that and roll with it. Yeah. It's that feedback is amazing.
Carolyn Norton 55:22
Recognition, never a bad thing. It's funny, I do this weird thing where every time I meet someone, they'll go, what do you do? And then I said, What do you think I do? You can only guess how many times I get the right answer. I do it because it just I always want to make sure my my my mind is is reading the pulse. Am I just presuming that women are not thought about in tech? Or is it actual? And unfortunately, still, I still get that. That's just my interactions, right? When I asked that question. So when I think about my daughter, and I do the same thing, Toby, I push her in front of them. I call out, you know, this is what Mommy does, she'll sit in front of the catheter. Thank you for calling velocio I have a video. It's cute. But I, you know, the same for me, seeing the other women and just seeing what's possible, definitely finally did that final step of something I already knew I wanted. But seeing it somewhere else really gave me that final click to get going forward. And I think with these younger with the with even people today it maybe you're not younger, maybe you're just thinking about it right now, I love technology, but I'm not sure whatever your roadblock is, if you see others, and hopefully in this webinar, you see all of us talking about how we've been able to navigate it and be successful with it. Hopefully that will give you whatever it is you need to take a chance. And what I struggle with is women. No, I don't know any woman that doesn't go out there and say, I'm amazing. I am woman hear me roar. We all know this. And yet, for some reason, we thought by ourselves, and it doesn't make any sense. And I forget who said it, but we have it in our gut, listen to your gut, watch other women succeed, push other women to succeed. Thank your male counterpart parts when they're also doing their part in helping you succeed, because I don't want to sit there hope to write and then hopefully, hopefully, that I think the question was, how do how can women help with technology? I love technology. I know I have something to say about it. I'm passionate about it. I want to be part of that discussion. And hopefully, if more women get more involved than they are today, or hopefully where we're at today, you know, there's only the sky's the limit. Again, we're still amazing. I mean, I can only imagine what happens when we're all in there doing it. So
Carrie Gabris 57:57
kind of sharing our successes too, just with your kids, right? I mean, if you have daughters, they're gonna understand like, oh, wow, well, my mom can do it, I can certainly do it right. And, you know, it comes down to men in the workforce later, then they, you know, they just have a respect for what women can do. And then they're still seeing you do all the hard stuff to write. So it's that self promotion, I guess we can just do it better in every avenue. I love that
Sabrina Zimara 58:29
this has been such an awesome discussion. I had all these other questions, too. And we just did not have time to get to them all. I know, there was some questions in the chat that I also did not get to. If you asked a question, and we didn't. We weren't able to answer it today. I will follow up with you directly to make sure that I do. We do get your your questions answered. But you know, thank you, everyone for attending. Especially thank you to this great group of women, Carrie, Lorna, Liz, Toby. Jackie. Carolyn, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us today. As I mentioned at the top of the hour, watch your email inbox, I'm going to send a copy of the recording of today's event. And then that latest edition of our Notes from the Field featuring thoughts and comments from experiences of women in technology. And I want to invite everyone to head over to LinkedIn right now. Find the velocio page, follow us and that will keep you up to date on other upcoming events like this other upcoming events really focused on technology. We have so much going on and we'd love to see you again in the future. So with that, we look forward to seeing you again and thank you everyone for joining us.
Carrie Gabris 59:39
Thank you guys
